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Eidein's avatar

I have two thoughts. The first is an almost throw-away comment that you kind of address but the general concept grinds my gears and I have to soapbox about it:

There's a lot of commentary online about all the problems with online dating, but they always ring a bit hollow to me. From my perspective, the failure mode is always the same: they describe a _woman's_ experience on online dating and generalize it to men. They will frequently talk about how online dating apps provide a fast-paced but hollow experience, flooding you with choices and turning people into superficial, picky people. This is almost universally true of every woman I have ever met who is on dating apps and, why wouldn't it be? When you can sign up for Tinder and find a ripped 6'2" blonde haired blue eyed man trophy to fuck, a different one every weekend, why wouldn't you?

But me? I haven't gotten a match on any dating app, in two years. And most of my male friends are in similar boats.

In other words

> Scrolling through potential matches can be exhausting, depressing, even somehow degrading. Replying to potential matches can be deadening, reusing the same phrases and ideas. This abstracted, atomised process puts pressure at every point, and it can come to feel horrible.

These would be accurate descriptions of the misery of Tinder, if any man I knew had enough potential matches to scroll through in the first place. The most successful men I know on Tinder are lucky to get one match a month.

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Second thought is more long-winded and complex. I wrote an unpublished blog post about it in 2020. I'll try to summarize it here.

You hit the nail on the head with this phrase

> Dating apps treat finding a mate as a wholesale data processing task, sorting and filtering profiles to find matches.

The core of my unpublished post is that _even if you could do this perfectly, and match every person on earth with their optimal match, it would still be miserable and most of those relationships would fail_. Why? Because it treats it as static optimization problem, but people aren't static.

Your perfect match today is not going to be your perfect match tomorrow, because people change. And your ideal match isn't going to be the perfect match for you right now, but rather the person with the most potential to become your perfect match over time. Making the conscious decision to love someone else and grow together with them is what makes a great relationship great. But every dating app that currently exists, with the possible exceptions of eHarmony and Christian Mingle, deny that this is even a thing. People on Tinder aren't spending half an hour reading the details of a profile and trying to make an educated guess on if this person has the most potential to grow with me. No, they're looking at a snapshot of that person right now and thinking "are they perfect for me right now". Hell, the structure of dating apps mean that it wouldn't be possible to be thoughtful about matches even if you wanted to; how the hell are you going to evaluate someone's long-term suitability off of 3 pictures and a tweet's worth of bio?

Fundamentally, as far as I'm concerned, the foundational problem is that women aren't putting in the work. In the dating market, women incentivize mens behaviour through what they reward with sex, and men then execute on those incentives. It is womens' historical gender responsibility to be thougthful and careful about which behaviours they incentivize, because it literally determines the attitudes of the next generation of society.

It is not men going through Tinder and turning everything cheap and superficial. It can't be, because there's only like 50 men on Tinder who get enough attention to be able to do that in the first place. It's women. Regular ass women. Average, mediocre women, who can't spend 15 minutes thinking through the context and implications of what they're doing. Average, mediocre women, who all match the same 50 guys and let them fuck their brains out and not call the next morning. As men, it is both outside of our control, and not our responsibility to fix.

Parting thought: among my female friends, their biggest complaint about dating in my city is "it's such a small world. Every guy I've dated has also dated half a dozen of my friends". I live in a city with such a gender imbalance that there are 40,000 surplus single men aged 20-35 in my city who will never find a partner, because there are not 40,000 corresponding surplus single women. Given a situation where each single woman could be dating two different guys at the same time and there would still be extra guys left over, it is extremely statistically unlikely that they would all happen to date the same guys. No. That happens because they're picking the same guys. Society will continue in dysfunction until they pick better men

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Copernican's avatar

Modern dating is an absolute disaster. The contract between genders has been shredded by modern woke ideology and feminism alike. Dating apps merely bring to the fore what has been festering for decades at this point. I find that the most effective methods of meeting a potential partner is one of two methods: friends of friends and actual foreigners. Mind you, neither is restricted to physical approaches. A number of people I know have met on discord servers only to later become functional couples now intending to produce children of their own. Digital meetings in this context can be fine as you're not attempting to impress via short-form-content on a dating app, but rather have the time and context to actually *write* to some one.

In some ways, I suppose this mimics your experiences in that the written word still has power. Rather than relying on emails and pen or paper it seems that there are excellent new avenues opening to meet via community connections in digital spaces. Keep that in mind as a modern method.

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